All-star pages coming soon; patience requested
June 3rd, 2008 by WesAlready received my first official reader complaint Sunday about our baseball All-State selections and page layout: Basically, the guy (anonymous, of course, with no callback number) grumbled, “Where are they? What’s taking so long?”
The short answer is, hopefully by the end of next week. Hopefully.
The longer answer, and explanation, is this:
1. We — or more specifically, I — firmly believe in giving the O‘ahu league all-stars in the most popular sports a display page with pictures of the Player of the Year and Coach of the Year for each league. This goes back to when I was growing up here, when both daily papers would do these display pages for football, basketball and baseball. These pages were so highly anticipated by me and my friends and I’m sure many others, they were part of the reason I got hooked on high school sports.
I still remember scotch-taping The Advertiser’s 1980 ILH Basketball All-Star page (Eric Morales, Jimmy Kalaukoa, John Kamana, Leroy Lutu, Dan Hale) and All-State page (Morales, Lutu, Hale, Reed Sunahara, Sam Johnson) to my bedroom door, right below the nerf hoop. These guys were like idols, along with Tony Dorsett (poster on my wall) and Walter Payton (Sport magazine cover).
Somewhere in the late 1980s or early 1990s, both daily papers here kind of got away from that, to the point where some all-star lists were run in small print only, without any pictures.
One of my goals here, as stated during an informal job interview with The Advertiser in January 2001, was to restore the big all-star layout pages of the past.
2. Assembling these all-star pages, however, turned out to be much more difficult than it looks.
In the 1970s and 80s, the sportswriters of both papers selected their own league all-stars. This means they could select the teams even before the state tournament, and they could limit it to nine baseball players, for example.
In the late 1980s, however, the leagues assumed control of the all-star selection, which is fine because we don’t see all the players in every league. But this also means we are on their schedule as to the release of the selections, and we have no control over the amount of kids selected.
For baseball now, there were 13 players selected to the ILH first team. That’s fine, but if we were to do it the old way, that’s 13 photos we need to take and process, as opposed to nine. And that’s just for the ILH. There’s also the OIA East, West and White, which we never had until this year.
So now we’re talking about up to 50 photos, not including the four Coaches of the Year.
Logistically, not feasible.
At the same time, I still believe that if you make ILH or OIA East or West Player of the Year, you deserve to have your photo in the paper, and the first team should be displayed prominently with a short write-up. So that’s what we do.
But even with just the Players and Coaches of the Year, that’s nine photos we have to arrange (around graduation schedules, trips, etc.) and shoot, chasing people down all over the island and whenever a photographer is available.
3. I firmly believe that the league all-stars should be announced before All-State ballots go out, because it rightfully affects the All-State voting.
For example, a player who might not have otherwise been a strong All-State candidate suddenly gets elevated if it is learned he was his league’s Player of the Year. Same with someone who was named first team all-league over another player.
So we focus on the all-league layouts first, then take care of All-State.
4. We plan to do the same thing for softball and boys volleyball, so that means the same process for both.
The process can be painstaking and requires a lot of phone calls, a lot of coordination, a lot of emergency alternatives, a lot of patience.
But to me, the finished products are worth the wait and I am excited to see them come out just like when I was a kid.
I hope the players, parents and readers feel the same way.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
imho I think the all star and all state nominations should stay separate. Each should have its own spread. I know this will cause hardships for the paper and anguish for parents but this should not be the criteria for the players distinguished efforts. Players should be recognized for their accomplishment while playing during that time. If their excellent play continues during tourny play and they get selected again so be it.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Wes, I have to agree. With respect to your reference of the 1980 basketball all-star team, I think the University High vs. Punahou match-up that year was one of the greatest match-ups in Hawaii high school basketball history. Dan Hale, John Kamana, and Richard Haenisch for the Buff-n-Blues vs. Leroy Lutu and the Morales twins.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Fire,
Good catch on the spellcheck.
The rest of your comment, however, is the same old ill-spirited bash-bash-bash that you are known for, and so it won’t get posted here.
It adds no value whatsoever to the discussion.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:26 am
The players’ names are not important — just the facts. This is not a gripe (after all, OIA coaches voted this way…). Just an observation, and the presentation of one example: a player has 20 RBI in nine league games, 18 runs scored, .568 batting average (17-29), over 1.000 slugging percentage (31 bases in 29 official at-bats); was also 2-0 pitching. Also hit for the cycle his first four at-bats in critical league game. And not named as a position player to the league first team or second team. But another player is named to an infield position (first team yet) who started half his games in the outfield.
All-star team voting is just like voting for student council president in grade school. How else can a lot of the results be explained? Like life, it can be a tad unfair. But the numbers don’t lie — yet far too often the votes do.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Wes,
I for one appreciate the care and consideration you must go through in putting these spreads together. I’m encouraged that the lists aren’t just thrown together like popularity contests. I’m further encouraged that I understand there will be D1 and D2 lists, as there are many great players on teams relegated to the background of D2 this year (even after winning their respective league last year).
Thanks for your efforts and we look forward to the lists
June 4th, 2008 at 7:06 am
I’ve noticed that that OIA teams don’t get the same level of coverage as the other leagues. To those of us who are family & friends, we are really interested in how these kids are doing. I didn’t see any coverage of All-Star game my nephew played in. It’s just important to us as the ILH coverage.
Go Waipahu!!!
June 4th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Thanks for doing it right Wes. I too remember the All-Star issues as being a big deal back in the day. Now that I have sons and to see them being recognized means more than I can describe. For me and all the members of our family. The competitive life of most athletes ends after high school and the hours and effort put into their sport of choice should be celebrated and valued. I too, by the way, still have the football All-Star pages from around the early eightees when I first became a recruitaholic in Tomey’s early years.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Wes,
when do the players who will be first team all-state get their photos taken?
June 4th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
i agree with koakane; he is a wise old man it sounds like.
June 4th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Baseball guru,
Probably next week, after the ballots are sent out and returned and the team is finalized. If kids happen to be out of town, we also can have their photos e-mailed to us.
First priority right now is the bios for the 12 HHSAA Foundation Hall of Honor inductees; that’s what I’m finishing up tonight.
Mahalo
June 5th, 2008 at 1:20 am
hey wes,
thanks for getting back so fast…..U rock!
mahalo and aloha
June 5th, 2008 at 8:32 am
League all-stars and all-state all-stars should be seperate. But remember, what a player does during the state tournament shouldn’t matter for the all-state selection because it’s unfair for the players who didn’t get a chance to play in it. That’s why you have an all-tournament team for that tournament.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Wes,
I like how you detailed the selection process. Over the past years, though, I find it comical how some of the boys get selected for all-league and all-state teams. Based on statistics alone which would give you a good idea of the performance of these boys and girls in their sport, the selection of the individuals do not match up. I would like someone to detail like you did how the selection process goes and what is considered for the OIA and ILH? In community soccer we had all the coaches vote and the top fifteen players (with the most number of votes) were selected for the gold select team. Is the selection of the player based on a list of players by positions and stats for OIA and ILH where the coaches vote on that list or is it by nomination by the head coaches? You can probably tell that if that were the latter case then it would explain a lot of the individual selections made over the past years. Is there also an adjustment for the league and level of competition that year? This consideration also affects the individual statistics since an individual’s statistics are dictated by the level of their competition. Anyway, it appears that there have been a number of discrepancies in who and where a player ends up on these all star teams. Since the number of the discrepancies or inconsistencies have increased, I don’t pay too much attention to the selections or taken them seriously. What I am saying is that all your hard work in providing and highlighting those individuals is like computers…garbage in…garbage out. Those that have followed the individuals and teams in there respective sports already know who the all-star players are, however, it is disappointing to the families and the individual for not receiving the accolades they have earned that year. Aloha
June 5th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
It’s sad when someone who makes a living hiding behind the 1st Amendment, routinely censors based on their own evolving criteria.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Mike and Windward, let’s not make Wes out to be a hero. He is definitely not! Here is a guy who spends his life hiding behind so called free expression, yet doesn’t have the guts to acknowledge public criticism.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
There. Public criticism. Happy now?
If I couldn’t handle public criticism, I would have quit this business many years ago, because unfortunately it comes with the territory.
The problem is that in the name of an open forum, I allowed way too many ill-intended insincere “trash talk” comments to stay posted which had no real value to the discussions at hand.
I even defended the right to free speech, but was told by several school and community personnel that the open forum and free speech do not justify personal attacks.
I’m starting to agree with them, and now have the control to limit such attacks that you enjoy so much.
So, I’m going to limit them.
June 6th, 2008 at 1:06 am
1. Head coaches submit players name to league for all star consideration
2. All star voting takes place at end of season meeting
3. Each head coach votes for three players per position by rank
4. All votes tallied, ties broken with revote
5. Highest vote getter is 1st team, 2nd team, honorable mention
6. Vote for player of the year done first; player removed from position voting
7. Stats provided if coach submits to league, before voting coaches can add, revise stats for players or say something about player before voting process, voting is probably done based on both stats and season performance
June 6th, 2008 at 8:09 am
I’m guessing that Sad and Yeah is the same guy. I don’t get what your argument is but if you’re going to call someone out for hiding behind a keyboard then ID yourself as So Sad and Yeah Right just blows your credentials right there. At least come out and say what your real beef is. Everybody knows who Wes is and as someone who has worked in the media for over 25 years I know critics are something these guys have to deal with everyday they are out in public. But at least in public they have to show their face when they have something to say.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Thanks for the ILH all star voting process. It answers a lot of questions why certain players were chosen and why others were not. The process is fair except for the very first decision which is left to the head coach. Currently, if a player’s name is not submitted, there is no way the other coaches can vote for the player. Has there been exceptions where a coach from another team can submit a player’s name for consideration? It would seem reasonable since they have witnessed the play of opposing players and the number of votes will still determine which team a player will make.i.e. 1st, 2nd, honorable mention. I am assuming that all-state teams are determined based on the all-stars from each league (ILH, OIA, BIIF, MIL & KIL) being voted upon. There lies the fallacy in this selection process as well since a deserving player that has been left out in their respective leagues will not be considered for All-State.
June 7th, 2008 at 4:26 am
Wes, thanks for taking the time to detail the process, and to give all the players “voted in” good recognition. Personally, I’d like to see complete batting stats for all first team, second team and third team position players, DH and utility. (And basic pitching stats for the first, second and third team pitchers too.) BUT therein lies the rub. The people who do the scorebooks at the games need to know what they are doing. Not too long ago, I’m watching two top teams play. A ground ball to short. Shortstop muffs the grounder. I mark an E6 in my own book (I need my own to follow the game better). The home team (official) scorer awards a hit! When I later asked why, all the official scorer would say, “That’s always a hit! He didn’t even try to throw the ball!” After I picked up by jaw, I just shook my head. In my experience, there must be two to three similar instances per baseball game. That does little to substantiate any all-star voting process. Good luck with it. All I can say is that it’s nice for some players to get recognition of this kind, but — in the end — it doesn’t help them on the next pitch or their next at-bat.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Wes - any update (or did I miss them altogether)? Looks like the blank page is up, am I missing something?
June 20th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
The last of the boys volleyball pictures are being taken today, I believe, so that league all-star page is next on deck and will be published within a few days.
Mahalo for reading.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Wes,
Next few days? You published this post three weeks ago and I understand how much goes into it, but holy smokes - people are already talking football and we don’t know who the advertiser’s baseball state picks are.
What’s going on?
June 28th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Baseball is not the only sport we do these spreads for, although that happens to be the only one you care about.
If we only concentrated on baseball, we could have had it done earlier.
Also, if we skipped the league all-star spreads like another publication does, we also could save a couple weeks.
There’s also news going on (read: Saint Louis) that needs to be covered during the week.
The good news is, the page is finally coming out Sunday.
Mahalo for your patience.
June 29th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Hey nobody mentioned 24 hour fitness courts the one by ala moana. The courts are a little small but the gym is air con and a lot of good ballers play there. Ive played agaisnt jack miller and kyle pape there and it gets pretty intense. Also there is this one guy named jourdan that plays there almost everyday and will shoot from behind the half court line and drain it everytime and will never lose there.