Punahou worthy of SI ranking, with assist from others
May 23rd, 2008 by WesOK, I finally got my hands on the Sports Illustrated issue with the article featuring Punahou as the nation’s No. 1 athletic program out of more than 38,000 high schools in the United States of America.
BTW, I was puzzled as to how the rest of the country had the issue on their newsstands Wednesday but even at 7:30 p.m. Thursday it was nowhere to be found at Borders Ward Centre or Barnes & Noble Ala Moana. The copy I have is on loan, from the bunch FedExed to Punahou from SI’s offices in New York.
I don’t subscribe, and my dad canceled his subsciption in March after more than 50 years (no time for us to read it as much nowdays).
Anyway, I wanted to wait until reading the article and seeing the actual layout in the hard copy (instead of just reading the on-line version) before commenting on it as a blog topic.
Overall, I think SI did a pretty good job educating the country on what Punahou is all about. The two-page introductory photo spread was fantastic, and reporter Austin Murphy seemed to grasp both the big picture and the minute details and put them together for a concise, well-written story.
I also give SI credit for legitimizing Punahou’s achievements, because I’m sure there are readers in New York or Texas or Florida who might question how hard it is to win a state championship in Hawai‘i. Some in those states or Michigan or Ohio or Pennsylvania might equate a Hawai‘i state championship as being the champ in Guam, or Rhode Island or Alaska.
Which brings me to why I think Punahou is worthy of the ranking, and why my only big regret with the story is I wish the reporter and photographer also got to spend some time at Kamehameha, ‘Iolani or even Mililani. As impressive as Punahou is academically, athletically and campus-wise, I don’t think those three schools are too far behind.
HHSAA executive director Keith Amemiya suggested as much with his comments in Tuesday’s Advertiser article, but at least one person has told me they thought his comments had no merit.
But honestly, I would have to agree with Amemiya that Punahou would not be No. 1 if Kamehameha, ‘Iolani, Saint Louis, Mid-Pacific or even Mililani, Baldwin or Waiakea were not giving the Buffanblu serious competition in nearly every sport across the board. Punahou has to strive and maximize its performances, otherwise they’ll lose.
The article portrays Punahou as the ultimate destination for prospective athletes and students, which might be true, but it ignores the fact that Kamehameha is statistically harder to get into, or that ‘Iolani’s selectivity in admissions is more than comparable.
If Punahou is indeed the “Harvard of Hawai‘i” that a lot of parents want to send their kid to, as Kapolei football coach Darren Hernandez is quoted as saying in the article, then what does that make ‘Iolani, which annually produces twice as many National Merit semifinalists with half the enrollment?
This is no knock on Punahou, because there is no question it is an outstanding school with a fantastic athletic program. I think it deserves the No. 1 ranking, but other schools in Hawai‘i are not very far behind.
Punahou is No. 1 largely because it has to compete in girls volleyball against Kamehameha, which was ranked No. 3 in the nation last season. It has to compete in boys basketball with ‘Iolani, which won seven of the past eight ILH chmpionships. It has to compete in football with Saint Louis, which has won 21 of the past 24 league titles.
It has to compete against athletes like Derrick Low, Brian Ching, Jonathan Spiker.
When your competition is that good, it forces you to raise your bar, train harder and play your best.
So, I agree that the No. 1 ranking is deserving, and I also think Hawai‘i’s overall competition level helped Punahou get there.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:57 am
I agree with your comments but when you compare facilities, there is no equal. the article made ME want to go there. Or at least send my kids. For Hawaii, the 17K pricetag is prohibitive. Already paying 10K at another school. What’s another 7k? Wait, soon to be times 2 kids…..What was the number for financial aid again???
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:08 am
“When your competition is that good, it forces you to raise your bar, train harder and play your best.”
Or just recruit.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:57 am
Wes, to say that “other schools in Hawaii are not very far behind” is extremely tunnel-visioned. While I agree that some schools in the state may not be very far behind in certain aspects of a high school experience, there is no school in the state, maybe even the country, that compares to the overall excellence in all aspects (i.e. academics, visual arts, performing arts, facilities, athletics) as Punahou does.
Even with the focus on athletic competition, St. Louis, Kamehameha, and I’olani challenge the Buff’nblu, traditionally, in certain sports (football, volleyball, and basketball). However, there is no school in the nation that fields as many State Championship teams as Punahou. Of the 33 D-1 State Championships in 2007-2008, Punahou won 16, and were runners-up in 4.
To compare admissions policies of Punahou with Kamehameha or Iolani carries no merit. Kamehameha is “statistically harder to get into” because of their region-specific admission policy. Iolani’s “selectivity” is a result of smaller class-sizes due to inadequate infrastructure. Ask any parent in the state to choose a school for their child, or take a tour of the facilities and meet the faculty at Punahou and a variety of schools, then argue that Punahou is not an “ultimate destination”.
While other schools may not be “very far behind” in a singular discipline, there’s no school west of the Mississippi that can challenge Punahou in overall excellence.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:11 am
Eagle:
“Recruit” is just another word for “advertise”. The school, and its reputation for excellence, “recruits” itself. If your child was the best violinist in the state, wouldn’t you want him/her to go to the school with the best orchestra program in the state?
As I mentioned earlier, whether is be academics, the arts, or athletics, the best want to go to Punahou because they want to be among the best.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:52 am
The “school” doesn’t “recruit”, its the people that are out and about in the community that are the eyes and ears for the school. Whether they be alumni or people that are looking out for the best interests of Punahou, if they see talent or potential, whether it be athletics, arts, academics, they’ll promote, advertise, recruit, these talented kids to go to Punahou. So what that 40% receive finanical aid, $100 or a full ride, so what….sometimes talent needs to be rewarded. It’s the 60% that don’t get anything and pay their own way that are happy just to be rubbing shoulders with the best of the best.
Congratulations to Punahou!
They’ve made Hawaii proud!
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Pineapple JoAnn:
You speak the truth and it does hurt but that is reason why so many people “hate” Punahou. For me personally, if I could send my kids there I would definately would want to give them that opportunity if it did present itself.
Changing gears and going towards your “recruiting” or “advertising” analogy, again my opinion is that all should be allowed to recruit, private and public schools alike. It would force the public school system to step it up in order to keep the kids they have and develop programs that will also attract others. And it would mean the other private school would need develop there academic and athletic programs as well in order to follow suit of face the consquences of being less than ideal destinations for the tutition they are charging. The winners here would be the kids in that they would have more options and improved facilities across the board. But this won’t happen because that how has always been and will continue to be…
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Coconut, Pineapple,
With all due respect, I think the public perception of Punahou’s facilities does not always match the reality.
For example, its baseball field is not even regulation. Compare it to ‘Iolani’s or Mid-Pacific’s, or even Mililani’s.
Punahou basically has one gym, granted a big one (Hemmeter Fieldhouse), for 12 basketball teams. Kamehameha and ‘Iolani each have two gyms for 10 teams.
Compare Alexander Field to Kamehameha’s Kunuiakea Stadium, or even John Kauinana Stadium (Mililani).
If the SI reporter took a tour of ‘Iolani’s campus, I very highly doubt he would describe it as having an “inadequate infrastructure.”
Again, this is not a knock on Punahou, because it does have great facilities. But I think in order to put things into proper perspective, this SI reporter and the public in general should have the opportunity to look at similar schools and campuses on O‘ahu and learn how Punahou is not all alone in offering outstanding educational opportunities.
I’m afraid that’s what some Mainland readers might think after reading the article.
Mahalo for reading.
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I just wanna point out one thing that stuck out in the article for me…the kid Te’o is taking an AP class. So much talk here on this blog has been about the “recruited” kids watering down the Punahou degree and that the school make-up is going to be like Kahuku pretty soon with all the Samoan/Hawaiian surnames, etc.
More power to ANYONE who can be afforded the opportunity to excel academically and athletically. All the people that hate Punahou need to look inward and figure out why they can’t appreciate a good thing when they see it. Looking in as an outsider, we tend to assume way too much about things. ALL schools have good and bad attributes.
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm
great blog and a great SI article
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
I’d agree with Wes’ comments about Punahou’s faciliies: generally pretty good but specific schools have better facilities.
I’m not sure that Iolani lacks infrastructure, so much as must remain a school with smaller enrollments than Punahou due to an inability to expand much further.
To all–Punahou may be perceived as the best at this and the best at that, but the real question is, assuming you have choices, what school will do the best job of educating a child–your child.
If your child thrives with smaller classes and the feeling of “knowing all their classmates,” Punahou is NOT the right school for that child, regardless of its academics, athletics, facilities, or anything else. Maybe a smaller school like Iolani or even smaller ones such as Christian Academy or St Andrew’s Priory or Damien or Waldorf makes more sense. Maybe a public charter school makes the most sense. It’s what fits the child that counts.
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Pineapple Joann:
I think Wes wrote a very balanced piece about Punahou’s achievement and can’t see why you would call it “extremely tunnel-visioned”. The award was for being the No. 1 Athletic Program, not for being the best overall high school. From your comments, its obvious you’re either an alumni, parent of a student/former student or a faculty member, and while you are entitled to your opnion, not everyone sees Punahou as the “ultimate destination”. I’m a parent of a child who was accepted to Punahou but decided he would be better off attending another school. In fact, his best friend was also accepted but declined as well. So while I congratulate Punahou for this great achievement, its attitudes like yours that causes more hate and contempt for your school.
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
stacyj:
Te’o is a true scholar-athlete, but as someone who knows a lot of Punahou parents kids, it appears not to be the rule, but more of an exception - super-athlete/typical Punahou-level scholar. Not uncommon for kids (and parents) to assess some students with less than typical Punahou-level intellect and think to themselves: Hmm, got in because either 1) athlete or 2) child of alumni.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:26 pm
I definitely agree with LRob. I was accepted into both Punahou and Iolani, but my parents and I decided on Iolani because of their academics. Although I definitely stood out more as an athlete than a student, I felt like Iolani was the right choice for me. At the end of the day, aren’t academics really what we go to school for? To say that Punahou is the “ultimate destination” is also discounting (no pun intended) the dramatically lower price of an education at Kamehameha.
I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember a recent assessment of the academics of every private school done by the WASC (Western Association of Schools and Colleges). Iolani was ranked first, Hawaii Baptist was second… Punahou was fifth.
I’m definitely not discounting the fact that many brilliant kids come out of Punahou. I know many of them personally. I also felt very proud of the recognition that Punahou, and Hawaii in general, got in the Sports Illustrated article. Yet to say that Punahou is “the ultimate destination” or “the Harvard of Hawaii” is ignorant.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Congrats to Punahou. I am an alum of another ILH school, but this type of publicity is great for Hawaii!
i still think that they needed to win a state football championship for this title, but all in all…still good for the state.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:28 am
I attended Punahou. I think the balance of the place is what I found had the most value for my education. I played football with future NFL players and did pretty well in the classroom. I still eat lunch with guys I have known since kindergarten.
Two fond memories: I had a great game blocking a renowned sumo wrestler at Aloha Stadium, and I made a guy that is currently a renowned liquid crystal physicist laugh at a quip in a comparative lit class in a discussion about Camus.
No bragging here; I can see why Pineapple JoAnn’s comments can upset people. I just want to show the balance that fit me as a student, athelete, and social creature.
May 24th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Good article here from Wes, he summed up everything nicely.
Congratulations to Punahou, but similar to what one person said,
to call Punahou the “Harvard of Hawaii” is ignorant in that there are many facets in which other schools excel more than Punahou. Other than athletics (which is what the award was about), it’s hard to say Punahou is still the best in other areas of a school.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I know Darren Hernandez is not ignorant, and I believe his wife went to Harvard and his son goes to Punahou, so he has some reference there.
I think he was just trying to illustrate to the reporter how valuable a Punahou education is and how it is looked at by many people, and maybe the words got taken slightly out of context.
Punahou might be like a Harvard, but as the reporter mentioned I think it’s more like Stanford or maybe more so Cal or UCLA. Certainly top-notch either way.
But my point is that Punahou is not in a league by itself here, despite the impression people might get from reading the article.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
I would love to see Punahou as well as other successful programs turn around and reach back to help other Hawai’i schools raise their bar levels.
Imagine every school in Hawaii, both public and private, being of the same caliber as Punahou, or Kamehameha or Iolani in both athletics and academics.
How awesome would that be.
Congratulations, Punahou.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Iolani is a fine school, with academics surely on par with Punahou’s, but “‘Iolani, which annually produces twice as many National Merit semifinalists with half the enrollment”?
Let’s not let the facts get in the way here, huh? I did a quick internet search of the yearly NMS semifinalists and could not find ONE year among the 8 I dug up where Iolani had twice as many semifinalists, much less evidence to say they did it annually. (In fact, two of the eight years I found results for Punahou had more semifinalists.) Again, this is not to take anything away from a fine school, but let’s not exaggerate things, Mr. Nakama. No need to turn this into PR for Iolani. You sound like a proud Iolani parent or something.
And while we’re on the topic of NMS semifinalists, all that shows is who tests well. Those are chosen off PSAT scores. I’d like to see which school has a higher percentage of grads going to top colleges.
Again, not to bag on Iolani. Despite my allegiances, I’d gladly send my kids to either school. But let’s not make up stuff.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Great article, the numbers don’t lie. I think Punahou had more State titles in the past 2 weeks than my public high school had in over its 100 year history. But I’d like to know Punahou’s record against mainland schools during pre-season games. I’m just saying, Punahou is great, they’re the New York Yankees of high school athletics in Hawaii. Yet, I wonder how Punahou would fare if they were in a 5a division high school in California, Texas, Florida or New York?
May 25th, 2008 at 3:44 am
“Punahou is No. 1 largely because it has to compete in girls volleyball against Kamehameha, which was ranked No. 3 in the nation last season. It has to compete in boys basketball with ‘Iolani, which won seven of the past eight ILH chmpionships. It has to compete in football with Saint Louis, which has won 21 of the past 24 league titles.”
The other top schools in SI’s list have to compete with outstanding competitors in their respective areas, which compels those top schools to raise their game too. It’s not just a Hawaii thing.
I wonder whether the other tops schools in SI’s list are receiving criticism like Punahou is? Is it just a Hawaii thing?
May 25th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Great SI article. The recognition is well deserved.
One of the readers of your blog said Punahou’s athletic success is due to recruiting. That is an old ill-informed claim that has already been shown to be untrue many times. Time to wake up and smell the coffee!
BTW, as the SI article correctly noted, Punahou’s athletic success, both among current students as well as alumni, has been matched by remarkable successes by Punahou students and alumni other fields. Take a look at Hawaii’s CEOs, for example. Punahou is the most frequent prep alma mater among them. Look at successful musicians, actors/actresses, playwrights, dancers, musicians, sculptors, painters, and writers who graduated from high school in Hawaii. Punahou is the #1 high school alma mater among them.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:22 am
In looking for analogous collegiate programs, here is my breakdown of some of the ILH schools:
Punahou (UCLA)
———–
One has most State titles in Hawaii. Other has most National titles in NCAA (1st to 100). Both collect most championships in the “minor” sports (water polo, volleyball, golf, soccer, tennis, etc.). Both have high academic reputation and selective admissions. Both share Blue & Gold (Buff) as school colors. Both football programs are competitive, but “can’t win the big one”.
Iolani (Stanford)
——-
Both have smaller enrollment, but win many titles in the “minor” sports. Both excel in baseball. Both lead their peers academically (Iolani the most Merit Scholars, Stanford … well, need I say more?). Both share Red as one of their school colors.
Kamehameha (Cal)
——————
Both win many championships each year because of diverse athletic programs. Both have strong heritage (Hawaiian ethnicity, Cal Bears legacy). Both provide excellent academics with selective admissions. Both share Blue as one of their school colors.
St. Louis (USC)
————
Both excel in one particular sport more than any other: Football. Both are schools are strong academically (USC more so at grad level). Both share shade of Red as school color.
Hey, it is just for fun …..
May 25th, 2008 at 10:33 am
I think many people’s vision is too linear here. Of course when you break down every specific element, often other schools will place or rank higher.
Look at Stanford and Harvard, they are not #1 in every single field of education or athletics. But academically speaking, they are relatively high in almost every academic area.
That is what Punahou is. Obviously, they are not going to be #1 in every single field of study, that is not realistic. But, they are near the top in many areas. That is what Coach Hernandez probably meant when he said Punahou is the Harvard of Hawaii.
I think many people out there are jealous and are trying to discredit this great story. Do you really think a magazine such as Sport Illustrated, a magazine that is read by millions, would really run a story with no merit or credibility behind it?
So for the overall experience, being a very versatile school, being one of the tops schools in academics, athletics, resources, ability to network, and showing off the finished product, what school in Hawaii tops Punahou?
It’s not even close.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
The Sports Illustrated article was excellent and very well informed.
One comment about your blog article. Your blog stated, “Punahou would not be No. 1 if Kamehameha, ‘Iolani, Saint Louis, Mid-Pacific or even Mililani, Baldwin or Waiakea were not giving the Buffanblu serious competition in nearly every sport across the board.”
The same comment can be made about the other 99 schools in SI’s top 100. They all have serious competitors in their respective states. Surely we have not reached the point where we believe that only Hawaii has this level of competition.
May 25th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Punahou received well-deserved recognition.
In your blog you stated, “my only big regret with the story is I wish the reporter and photographer also got to spend some time at Kamehameha, ‘Iolani or even Mililani. As impressive as Punahou is academically, athletically and campus-wise, I don’t think those three schools are too far behind.”
There may be one or two sportswriters in other states who are wishing, as you did, that Sports Illustrated had also written about their own high school alma mater and a couple of other high schools in their own home state.
Of course, it was technically doable. SI could have written an article about the top 5, or 10, or 20 athletic programs in each state, or maybe even the top 5, or 10, or 20 Division I athletic programs in each state, AND the top 5, or 10, or 20 Division II athletic programs in each state.
Better still, if SI had done the top 50 Division I and top 50 Division II athletic programs in each state, the two lists combined would have included ALL of Hawaii’s high schools, thereby making everybody happy.
May 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
You and others are missing the point.
My main concern is that thousands of Mainland readers, without knowing anything about Hawaii high schools, might read that article and come away thinking that Punahou stands all alone in Hawaii as far as offering the “depth and breadth” of academic, arts or athletic opportunities.
That is not the truth.
The reason I wish the reporter got to visit Kamehameha and ‘Iolani is that while he was understandably blown away by Punahou, I think he would have had more perspective if he had seen that there are other schools here that offer similar educational opportunities.
I don’t “wish he wrote about my alma mater;” I just wish he got the full picture of private education in Hawaii. I truly believe his perspective then might have been a little different, and this would have been reflected in the article.
People on the Mainland shouldn’t be led to believe that Punahou is the undisputed No. 1 choice of every parent in Hawaii, because it is not.
But after reading that article, that’s the impression that is given.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
One Buff Dude,
You are right, at least in the past three years that I looked up. I sincerely apologize to you and others for not being accurate in mentioning National Merit Semifinalist numbers.
Here they are:
2007 — ‘Iolani 32, Punahou 17
2006 — ‘Iolani 28, Punahou 21
2005 — ‘Iolani 34, Punahou 23
As for “half the enrollment,” that is not entirely accurate, either. Punahou’s senior class has 430 students; ‘Iolani’s about 225.
Sorry for exaggerating the first time; these are the actual raw numbers.
Mahalo for reading.
May 25th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Punahou rightly received national/international recognition that it merited yet it humbly didn’t seek and it humbly hasn’t flaunted.
Your blog bemoans the fact that certain other Hawaii schools didn’t get similar recognition. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Take a look at the HHSAA’s historical list of high school championship teams (even though the list is only about 90%-95% complete) and it will become OBVIOUS to even the most casual observer why Punahou was recognized by SI and your school wasn’t.
May 25th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
To all … let’s not forget this article came out in a sports magazine … not Time or Newsweek or Forbes. Yes, it happens to be the de facto print mag for sports in our country, but some of us here are extrapolating too much on the impact the article will have on the collective impression of the readership regarding a scholastic “imbalance” in Hawaii. The focus of the article was to illuminate the virtures of the selected institution, provide some context, and wax poetically on a few anecdotes. It was not to coerce infighting amongst the local population or bring about dormant longstanding grudges. SI has been publishing this article for 5 years about a mythical “#1 High School Sports Program”, and I bet each year the same reaction is drawn from local area schools. Keeping it all in perspective, as it were, it’s all no big ‘ting … was just goo’ fun, yeah? Relax bradah bradah … and enjoy the view …
May 25th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
You wrote:
“My main concern is that thousands of Mainland readers, without knowing anything about Hawaii high schools, might read that article and come away thinking that Punahou stands all alone in Hawaii as far as offering the “depth and breadth” of academic, arts or athletic opportunities.”
So some lobsterman in Bangor, Maine, after working all day at sea and having a hearty supper afterwards, is going to sit down in his easy chair and read the Sports Illustrated article and somehow conclude that “Punahou stands all alone in Hawaii as far as offering the ‘depth and breadth’ of academic, arts or athletic opportunities.”
First of all, the article doesn’t promote that viewpoint.
Second, what if the Maine lobsterman were to draw that conclusion? What of it? What are the consequences? Will he even remember the article tomorrow?
Much ado about nothing.
Time to take a chill pill.
May 25th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
I’m chillin, I’m relaxing.
I’m not “bemoaning” anything.
I’m simply making my observation and that is the one critique I had; I said from the beginning that the reporter did a pretty good job and the article was good.
Also, read the headline: I said Punahou was deserving, and I still believe so.
That being said, having lived on the Mainland for five years (both the East and West Coasts), I know for a fact that a lot of Mainland people have a lot of misconceptions about Hawaii, and I think the media can play a role in those misconceptions.
Even people living in Hawaii have misconceptions, and I just would like to see some of those misconceptions cleared up.
That’s all.
Mahalo for reading.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Why should the writer look at Kamehameha, Iolani, Mililani, or any other school? This is a story about Punahou, plain and simple. It would be ridiculous to look at the other schools. If that was the case, wouldn’t the story be more about Hawaii High School athletics instead of Punahou being chosen #1?
May 25th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Nothing like a controversy, or at least strong viewpoints, to make an interesting blog topic. Thanks Wes for stirring the pot.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
“Take a look at the HHSAA’s historical list of high school championship teams (even though the list is only about 90%-95% complete) and it will become OBVIOUS to even the most casual observer why Punahou was recognized by SI…”
The HHSAA’s statistics are indeed incomplete. For example, the HHSAA shows only about 65%-70% of Punahou’s state championships the past few years. I’m not sure why the HHSAA website cannot keep on top of something so simple.
When one does look at the HHSAA’s list of state championships won by Punahou and compare them to the state championships won by the other six high schools mentioned in the blog, the contrast is pretty dramatic. There is no way that one can plausibly assert that those other six schools are close behind Punahou in their athletic achievements. It’s not even close. Not by a mile. Check out the HHSAA stats, incomplete though they may be, for the following schools mentioned in the blog.
Punahou
http://www.hhsaa.org/tournament_records/by_school/Punahou+School
Iolani
http://www.hhsaa.org/tournament_records/by_school/Iolani+School
Kamehameha
http://www.hhsaa.org/tournament_records/by_school/Kamehameha+Schools+-+Kapalama
Mid-Pacific
http://www.hhsaa.org/tournament_records/by_school/Mid-Pacific+Institute
Mililani
http://www.hhsaa.org/tournament_records/by_school/Mililani+High+School
Baldwin
http://www.hhsaa.org/tournament_records/by_school/Baldwin+High+School
Waiakea
http://www.hhsaa.org/tournament_records/by_school/Waiakea+High+School
The source of the earlier reference to the high school alma mater of Hawaii’s CEOs is an article in the December 2007 issue of Hawaii business.
URL:
http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/Hawaii-Business/December-2007/Your-Guide-to-Local-Style-Business/
“Your Guide to Local Style Business”
“Most common local high schools our Black Book executives reported”
Punahou - 31
Iolani - 17
Roosevelt - 10
St Louis - 7
Hilo - 7
Castle - 6
Kaimuki - 5
Leilehua - 5
McKinley - 3
Mid-Pacific - 3
Kalani - 3
Waipahu - 3
Aiea - 2
Hawaii Prep. - 2
Kamehameha - 2
Farrington - 2
Moanalua - 2
Hawaii Baptist - 2
Kapaa - 2
Radford - 2
Seabury - 2
May 26th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Jealous,
Did you watch American Idol, the episode when Jason Castro (dreds dude) played Iz’s version of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” on the uke and Randy, Paula and Simon were all blown away?
How many local people were blown away by that performance?
The difference is, we have seen that version of the song done well by Iz and by others, even friends or relatives, so our perspective was much different from the judges, who might have been hearing it live for the first time.
That is why perspective is important. If you only see one thing, that’s all you have to base your perspective on. But if you are able to see it among peers, then you get a better overall picture.
That’s all I’m saying.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Congrats to Punahou for the recognition. Excellent discussion - so civil compared to when HS sports are in season. I compare this type of thing (the SI ranking) to that list that Dr. Beach puts out annually, ranking the top US beaches: very subjective. Dr. Beach “retires” the #1 beach from the previous year. I wonder if Punahou will be able to maintain its #1 national ranking in SI’s eyes, or if it will fall off the ladder in one year’s time. In my opinion, SI’s article is a fluff piece that involves a map and darts as much as it does quantifiable methods. Sizing up the Hawaiian competition, as Wes suggests, would lend the article and Punahou’s ranking much more credence. Still, the recognition would be subject to debate, akin to a “strengh of schedule” analysis.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
**UPDATED**
HHSAA stats wrote:
“When one does look at the HHSAA’s list of state championships won by Punahou and compare them to the state championships won by the other six high schools mentioned in the blog, the contrast is pretty dramatic.”
According to the HHSAA numbers:
Punahou has won over 200 more state championships than Iolani.
Punahou has won over 200 more state championships than Kamehameha.
Punahou has won over 300 more state championships than Mid-Pacific Institute.
Punahou has won over 300 more state championships than Mililani.
Punahou has won over 300 more state championships than Waiakea.
Punahou has won over 300 more state championships than Baldwin.
When you add up the state championships won by Iolani, Kamehameha, Mid-Pacific, Mililani, Waiakea, and Baldwin, their combined total is still less than Punahou’s total. The Buffanblu still come out ahead by over 100 state championships.
It is incorrect to claim that these other five schools are close behind Punahou in their athletic achievements. It’s just not true.
During the past week we have seen a lot of people in the blogosphere making claims without taking the time to research the facts.
May 26th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Those are the numbers on paper, but if you actually watch the competition on the field and on the court, you will see that Punahou is not winning by a mile.
Boys basketball did not win the ILH this year. Girls basketball lost to ‘Iolani in the regular season and was trailing for three quarters in the state title game. Baseball lost five times and took third in the regular season and was losing to Roosevelt 5-0, 7-6 and 8-7 even in the bottom of the seventh inning in the state quarterfinals.
Two-time state champ boys tennis doubles team lost in the semifinals this year. Boys volleyball lost in the state finals.
Look at football, girls volleyball … I could go on.
If you watch these games, you would see that as Keith Amemiya said, “Punahou has been pushed and defeated” by many Hawai‘i high schools even up to the final weekend.
That is why I say other schools are not too far behind.
Mahalo for reading.
May 26th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I agree that other schools helped Punahou get where it is today. It’s just like how the Los Angeles Angels helped the Red Sox win the American League Division Series last year, and then how the Cleveland Indians helped the Red Sox win the American League Championship Series right after that, and then how the Colorado Rockies helped the Red Sox win the World Series right after that. Same concept. Without all those teams making the Red Sox step it up, the Red Sox would never have won those championships.
May 26th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
If the Red Sox won the Pacific Coast League, or the International League, or the Appalachian League, they would not be called “World Champions.”
They earned that title only because they won the AL, then beat the NL champs.
May 26th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Wes, you are looking at individual cases and pulling them out of context. If you look at various areas, and use the entire state of Hawaii versus Punahou, then the state is very competitive against Punahou. Of course there are going to be teams that are very competitive, even better if you use the entire state as a model and you pull out only the certain teams you want to strengthen your argument.
But try comparing each individual school against Punahou, one-on-one, and see how each school matches up over the entire athletic program, state titles won, and including all varsity sports.
Obviously schools such as Iolani and Kamehameha will stack up nicely in certain areas. But, how would they do if you sampled each sport instead of only choosing the ones where they are competitive or better?
There is a HUGE difference between winning and coming close.
Once again Mr. Amemiya and yourself are comparing the entire state versus Punahou. Do you really think pulling from a pool of over 60 schools against one school strengthens your argument?
If anything, it weakens your argument that you need to compare all the schools to one school. And the fact that many schools come close but do not win, shows how dominant Punahou really is when they have over 300+ state titles.
Case in point, Iolani basketball was dominant for 5 years when they won titles. But, they had close games where Punahou, St. Louis, and Kamehameha had close games but loss. They even loss to Punahou, finally, after all those tries. But they still won 5 titles straight. So, even though the other teams are close, Iolani was dominant because no one could beat them when it counted.
So by your standard the Jordan Bulls and Jeter Yankees who won multiple titles in a row wasn’t dominant because they loss many times or played close games with many teams.
Where is the logic there?
The teams aren’t that far behind when you specifically pull out the samples you want to strengthen your argument.
But if you look at fact, which cannot be debated, no athletic program comes close to Punahou when it comes to winning state titles over the history of the school or in a given school year. That cannot be debated.
The opinion of playing close, winning in various sports, being competitive, is purely a relative opinion and is more subjective than objective, which is your right.
But objectively speaking, the athletic program of Punahou School, using the amount of state titles won as the only variable, separates Punahou from all their peers. That cannot be debated and is a scientific fact……
May 26th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
True dat.
Punahou’s athletic program is No. 1 in Hawai‘i, and I believe deserves to be No. 1 in the nation. I’ve said that from the beginning.
But if I am a swimmer, volleyball player, basketball player, soccer player, track athlete, whatever, and I choose to attend ‘Iolani or Kamehameha, am I really putting myself in a program that is “way behind” or that inferior to Punahou’s?
I don’t think so.
That’s what I mean by “not too far behind.”
The numbers (state championships) may weigh heavily in Punahou’s favor, but if you look at the facilities, coaching and overall program, there’s not that big a gap. Many of these other programs have won state titles, too, just not in the overall heap that Punahou has.
But Punahou certainly is not in a league by itself. They have to fight for and earn every single one of those titles.
The proof is in the competitiveness mentioned above, and that competition helps keep Punahou’s level high, in my opinion.
May 26th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
The HHSAA website lists 356 state championships for Punahou, which is 12 less than the 368 reported by Sports Illustrated. The HHSAA numbers for Punahou clearly are in error; anyone who has followed prep sports in recent years can see that the HHSAA hasn’t listed all of Punahou’s state championships for 2006, 2007, and 2008. They are understated by 3.3%. It is probably reasonable to assume that other schools’ championship totals are also underreported by a similar percentage.
One would think that the gaps would be easy for the HHSAA to fix, especially since championship results are available online.
Using the HHSAA website as a less-than-perfect guide to state championships, here are the state championship totals for schools mentioned in this blog that are said to be close behind Punahou athletically.
84 Iolani
74 Kamehameha
20 Waiakea
14 Baldwin
13 Mililani
7 Mid-Pacific
—- —————–
212 Total
Compared to Punahou’s total:
356 (HHSAA’s website)
368 (Sports Illustrated article)
Even if you combine the totals for the other six schools, Punahou’s total is still 140+ higher.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Hey reality check, the other schools are not too far behind. Maybe when Punahou has 1500 titles and the second place school has 100 then some people will feel that Punahou is in a league of their own when you look at total state titles won.
But, if playing close and winning every so often is what you guys feel is being close versus winning state titles often, then so be it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
In terms of winning state titles, every program in Hawaii is inferior to Punahou’s. If building relationships, having fun, teaching the fundamentals, are the variables, then there are many schools that are top notch. But if winning is the standard, there isn’t a single athletic program in Hawaii that compares or is even close.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:13 am
Hey Are u jealous, I share your perspective. The facts are too obvious too ignore. Sports Illustrated got it right. It did its research.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I think the focus is and should only be on Punahou. When they ran a similar story a few years ago when Punahou was listed at #4, Sports Illustrated did not talk about the others schools in the #2 school’s league.
If the author had to write about all the different schools in addition to the ranked schools, it would take too much time. That is unrealistic. This story should focus on Punahou. Anyone who is from Hawaii should take pride in that and not be greedy. Our state could get no pub at all.
May 29th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Wes,
This is a joke. How many schools in Hawaii have water polo, paddling, and other “sports” like that for Punahou to compete against???? Punahou participates in sports that most other schools either don’t field a team, or doesn’t take the sport seriously. Furthermore, my guess is that there are other schools in the mainland that have more professional athletes than Punahou does. How many does Punahou have??????
Fact is that Punahou is a great academic school with a beautiful campus, but it is FAR from having the best athletic program in the country. There are at least 20 programs in California that are better. Probably many more from Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania and others….
May 30th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Brenda Shad wrote:
“There are at least 20 programs in California that are better. Probably many more from Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania and others….”
If you want to be taken seriously, do the research, assemble the statistics, do the analysis, and publish your findings here.
Without statistics and an analysis like Sports Illustrated put together, your comments have no merit.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Brenda Shad–Many schools participate in the sports mentioned; whether they “take the sport seriously” is a presumptive judgment call on your part. In the eyes of the schools and the student-athletes, I’m sure they “take it as seriously” as they can.
How many professional athletes a school produces is a dubious criterion, if the SI rankings means “in this school year.” Nobody knows how many professionalathletes will come of the classes of 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 at any school. I understand the award to refer mostly to the “current school year” and not in years past.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:08 am
We just gotta thank Obama for all the attention.
enuf said!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:14 am
To all those who questioned SI’s ranking of Punahou ~ why so much hate? It reminds me of the “A’ama Crab Syndrome” (when one crab climbs up, the rest pull it back down). It really makes Hawaii look bad when we can’t even applaud the recognition of one of our own.
Others have mentioned that there are more deserving schools….then why didn’t SI choose them for the #1 spot!?! I’m sure they researched all the high schools in the U.S.A.!
C’mon folks, let’s stop the griping and “Congratulate” Punahou for a job well done (without the need to add negativities). Punahou’s recognition does not mean that student athletes from other schools are “less than” or that other school facilities are not equal to or better than Punahou’s BUT why even bring it up at this time. Congratulations Punahou School ~ You deserve it!!
May 30th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
While I agree that Punahou should be congratulated, the only reason I brought up the other schools is that any time Hawai‘i gets a write-up in a national publication, I pay close attention to see if the portrayal is accurate.
A lot of times it is not, but in this case it pretty much was.
My personal observation was that some minor points/tones might have been misleading (ie: “Harvard of Hawai‘i”) and different with just a little more research, but overall it was a pretty good article.
I am sorry if my observation came across as “griping,” because I do not and never have argued against Punahou’s athletic ranking.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Wes, it’s OK to show school spirit, as you do for Iolani, but you are letting it undermine your blog. (And not just in your recent Sports Illustrated commentary, by the way.)
Punahou’s reputation as the “Harvard of Hawaii” (among other complimentary metaphors) existed LONG before you or any of the readers of this blog (I included) were born. Punahou is routinely included in the list of the top schools in the country, and in such lists it is only school listed from Hawaii. For example, here’s a list of the top private schools in the country that has been used in scholarly studies of the educational background of top corporate management. Punahou is the only school from Hawaii listed, and one of just a handful west of the Mississippi River. Most of the top schools are in New England.
Asheville (Asheville, NC)
Buckley (New York City, NY)
Cate (Carpinteria, CA)
Catlin Gabel (Portland, OR)
Choate (Wallingford, CT)
Cranbrook (Bloomfield Hills, MI)
Country Day School (St. Louis, MO)
Deerfield (Deerfield, MA)
Episcopal High (Alexandria, VA)
Gilman (Baltimore, MD)
Groton, (Groton, CT)
Hill (Pottstown, PA)
Hotchkiss (Lakeville, CT)
Kingswood (Hartford, CT)
Kent (Kent, CT)
Lake Forest (Lake Forest, IL)
Lakeside (Seattle, WA - Bill Gates’ high school)
Lawrenceville (Lawrenceville, NJ)
Middlesex (Concord, MA)
Milton (Milton, MA)
Moses Brown (Providence, RI)
Pomfret (Pomfret, CT)
Portsmouth Priory (Portsmouth, RI)
Punahou (Honolulu, HI)
St. Andrew’s (Middlebury, DE)
St. Christopher’s (Richmond, VA)
St. George’s (Newport, RI)
St. Mark’s (Southborough, MA)
St. Paul’s (Concord, NH)
Shattuck (Fairbault, MN)
Taft (Watertown, CT)
Thacher (Ojai, CA)
University School (Cleveland, OH)
University School (Milwaukee, WI)
Webb (Bell Buckle, TN)
Westminster (Atlanta, GA)
Woodberry Forest (Woodberry Forest, VA)
Punahou’s inclusion in this list is consistent with its being the #1 high school alma mater of CEOs in Hawaii, per Hawaii Business magazine.
There are many such lists, put together for various purposes.
This is not a swipe at Iolani. Iolani is a good school, too, and an excellent rival for Punahou.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Bill,
It’s only dubious if you can’t deal with reality. Manti Teo will probably be the next pro from Punahou but there are so many programs that produce professionals in many sports. Maybe you can’t judge from this class, but go ahead and judge from history of a school.
Name me all the schools that have a water polo program…..
Also, Punahou doesn’t face the same competition as schools in the states…..PERIOD.
How do you think that Punahou’s state championship basketball team would fare against mainland schools????
June 1st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
School Spirit,
I’m not the only one who would question the “Harvard of Hawai‘i” designation, and you don’t have to be alumni of a rival school to think that way.
I know for a fact that Punahou is not the No. 1 choice of every family in Hawai‘i, and that is the misleading notion that I wonder about being perpetuated on the Mainland and even among some uninformed residents here.
Both the lists you cite are CEO/business related, but what about medicine/dentistry, law, engineering, science, etc.? And don’t forget to adjust for per capita (enrollment size).
I wonder if even admissions directors in the Ivy League or UC system consider Punahou to stand all alone as the “Harvard of Hawai‘i.”
It’s not about school spirit; it’s about accurate perceptions.
Mahalo for reading.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Wes wrote:
> I know for a fact that Punahou is not the No. 1 choice
> of every family in Hawai‘i.”
The Sports Illlustrated article did not make the claim that Punahou is the #1 choice of every family in Hawaii.
Nor did I see any blog post here that made that claim.
You are reading too much into the Sports Illustrated article.
Just as an FYI, even Harvard is not the No.1 choice of every family in America. The Harvard Crimson reported on May 8 that Harvard is projecting that only 76% of the high school seniors that Harvard offered admission to this year will accept the offer. That means that 24% of the families will be choosing to send their child somewhere else.
The Yale Daily News reported on May 16 says that Yales estimates that only 69% of this year’s applicants will accept Yale’s offer of admission. 31% will turn it down.
The Stanford Daily reported on May 15 that only 72% of the high school seniors who received an admission offer from Stanford this spring accepted the offer. 28% turned it down. The Daily went on to say, “Last year the University’s yield rate stood at approximately 70.8 percent, while the previous year’s rate hovered around 69 percent.”
Wes, you are again letting your school spirit undermine your blog.
June 1st, 2008 at 9:04 pm
So I guess even Harvard is not “the Harvard of the U.S.” (haha)
Anyway, the SI article did not outright make the claim that Punahou is the No. 1 choice of every family in Hawai‘i, but to me any unaware Mainland person reading it could easily draw that conclusion based on the way it was written especially with the “Harvard of Hawai‘i” reference.
If I had a Mainland guest with me and was driving down Wilder Ave., I might point to Punahou and give praise, but I certainly would not refer to it as the “Harvard of Hawai‘i.”
And it’s not because of “school spirit;” it’s because honestly I don’t think that is an accurate description.
I would rather not mislead a Mainlander by perpetuating a misconception.
Oh, and I think a few posts (#3, #4, #22, #24) did make such a “No. 1 choice” claim, in so many words.
Mahalo for reading.
June 1st, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Wes wrote:
> Oh, and I think a few posts (#3, #4, #22, #24) did make
> such a “No. 1 choice” claim, in so many words.
I reread those posts and they did clearly NOT assert that “Punahou is the #1 choice of every family in Hawaii.”
Reread them and you can see for yourself. It’s all in black and white,
Wes wrote:
> Both the lists you cite are CEO/business related, but what
> about medicine/dentistry, law, engineering, science, etc.?
What does your research show in these areas? Do the research, assemble the statistics, do the analysis, and publish your findings here to support your point of view.
June 1st, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Brenda wrote,
> How many schools in Hawaii have water polo, paddling, and
> other “sports” like that for Punahou to compete against????
“Other sports” like basketball (which the Punahou boys and girls won), baseball (which the Punahou boys won), track & field (which the Punahou boys won), cross country (which the Punahou girls won), tennis (which the Punahou boys and girls won), wrestling (which the Punahou boys won), and on and on. Sixteen state championships this year.
You can read the complete list of state championships in today’s newspapers and see which ones Punahou won this year.
You can go to the HHSAA web site and see 356 of the 368 state championships that Punahou has won through 2008. (Hopefully the HHSAA will get a copy of today’s Advertiser and use it to update its 2008 information.)
You obviously aren’t in touch with the water polo and paddling scene here in Hawaii. Too bad. Your loss. These are great sports.
Water polo is even bigger on the mainland than it is here in Hawaii. Half of the country’s top high school water polo teams are, predictably, in California. Other states where the country’s other top high-school water polo teams are located are Illinois (hard to believe, but it’s true), Florida, Texas, Maryland, and Washington.
June 1st, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Wes wrote:
> If I had a Mainland guest with me and was driving down Wilder Ave.,
> I might point to Punahou and give praise, but I certainly would not
> refer to it as the “Harvard of Hawai‘i.” And it’s not because of
> “school spirit;” it’s because honestly I don’t think that is an accurate
> description. I would rather not mislead a Mainlander by perpetuating
> a misconception.”
The operant phrase is “I don’t think that is an accurate description.”
Your point of view is simply an opinion. It is not a fact.
People who feel that Punahou is the “Harvard of Hawaii” are equally entitled to their opinion.
Just as you may feel that they have a “misconception” about Punahou, they may feel that you have a misconception about Punahou.
BTW, those same people, for all we know, may view Iolani as the “Yale of Hawaii.” I’ve never heard anyone say it, but who knows? Maybe they are thinking it.
June 1st, 2008 at 11:46 pm
This is getting ridiculous. You views are no longer objective, but rather subjective. Could it be that you are an alumnus of Iolani, a good school, but obviously not Punahou.
The academics are there. But, the networking is nowhere close, the accomplishments are nowhere close, and the athletics is nowhere close.
And why do you really care that mainland people think about Punahou anyway? If you do, why are you blogging on a Hawaii Blog.
Why don’t you contact Sport Illustrated (if you haven’t already) and voice your concerns. As a journalist, I would think they would listen to you. If your views have merit, maybe they would do something about it.
Let’s get real, which school in the state has the most applicants yearly, the most kids on the waitlist, etc. Parents are not applying at high rates, willing to pay huge amounts of money, and kids are not sitting on the waiting list at Punahou because Punahou is the UH of Hawaii.
A story will never be 100% accurate, but let’s be realistic, when is it ever? But if you go by any bookstore or magazine store, try and find a copy of this Sports Illustrates issue. Obviously many people enjoy the reading, can be optimistic instead of pessimistic, and can be proud of one of our own doing well.
Your views, opinions, and negative attitude reflects the crab analogy where the crabs continue to pull each other down.
AUWE!!!!
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 am
Obviously, almost everything mentioned on this blog is opinion, including SI’s No. 1 ranking itself (it’s not scientific).
Of course, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
But some people base their opinions solely on public perception and myths, and this is my concern.
Example: According to our own “Best of the Best” “OFFICIAL” People’s Choice Awards insert in Sunday’s Advertiser, Howard Dicus is the best journalist in Hawai‘i.
No offense to Howard — congrats to him — but is he really the best journalist in Hawai‘i?
If I go to my journalism convention in Chicago (8,000 strong) next month and hear my Mainland colleagues refer to Howard Dicus as “the best journalist in Hawai‘i,” you can bet I am going to speak up on that and clarify some things.
I’m sorry, but you cannot expect me to sit back and keep quiet and allow them to believe and spread a perception that I personally think is not accurate.
Mahalo for reading.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:18 am
Jealous,
Despite what you might think, I’m not trying to pull anybody down. Who do you think broke this story in the first place?
I’m happy for Punahou, and have said from the beginning that they are deserving (again, please read the headline).
I mentioned one observation, people took offense to this observation and accused me of this and that, and so I defend my position.
As Opinion points out, we all are entitled to our opinion, and that is what this blog is mostly about.
Mahalo for reading.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:23 am
Wes wrote:
> If I go to my journalism convention in Chicago (8,000 strong) next
> month and hear my Mainland colleagues refer to Howard Dicus as
> “the best journalist in Hawai‘i,” you can bet I am going to speak up
> on that and clarify some things.
So what’s the deal?
Do you know something about Howard Dicus that the People’s Choice voters don’t know?
Wes, I think I’m beginning to see a pattern here. When your favorite school/journalist/whatever is not voted #1, you get a case of sour grapes.
It’s time to show some good sportsmanship.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 am
If you go on a Mainland trip and someone told you they heard everybody in Hawai‘i lives in grass huts, you just nod your head?
If you hear those same people (this actually has happened to me) say, “So, how do you like visiting the United States?” You just smile and say, “Oh, it’s great …”???
As I have said all along, it is about PERCEPTION and PERSPECTIVE, not sour grapes.
You and others are so focused on and paranoid about my perceived bias, you automatically point to that instead of trying to understand my reasoning.
As I have said before, I know for a fact that many Mainland people already have a lot of misconceptions about Hawai‘i, and you might have no problem with them being perpetuated, but I’d rather try to have them be well-informed instead of basing their perceptions on myths or false claims.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:53 am
By the time you broke the story, the word was out, it was not breaking news. Administrators, teachers, students, at Punahou all knew the story was being done since the writer and photographers were all over the school.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:20 am
Wes you are right on track. I too believe that Punahou is the not the Harvard of Hawaii nor do I believe that it is every household’s number one school to attend. I too know people who have got accepted to Punahou but later declined to attend because it wasn’t the school for them. I think people are getting too caught up with the myths and misconceptions about Punahou. I also believe that they are not too far behind other schools in sports as you and Mr. Amemiya has previously mentioned. I don’t know why all you other bloggers are getting so upset at Wes. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so stop trying to persuade us to think that Punahou is the greatest at everything…sports and academics because it is reallly not. It may be amongst the top along side Kamehameha, Iolani and Mid Pacific but it is nowhere near being the ultimate top. If it was then we should see Punahou winning everything but it clearly doesn’t. People need to start waking up and stop believing everything you hear or read in the paper. Again, it is all someone’s opinion on who is the best. Another good point is if Punahou is the number 1 school for sports then when they compete with mainland schools why are they not winning? The mainland competition is way better and Punahou is lucky to even have a chance to play with them on that level. Wes, I don’t believe by any means that you are being a sour grape you are just tryin to stand up in what you believe in and we definitely need more people like you. Don’t worry about what others say as they are only backing Punahou because they don’t know any better. That’s what we call naive.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:02 am
Punahou School’s reputation is based upon more than just “myths and false claims.” For those of you who believe that, if given the opportunity, a family would reject a Punahou admission - You’ve got to be kidding me. I know for a fact many families who applied and got rejected..some who applied, got accepted, but had to choose a more inexpensive school….and some who did not apply but really wish they had. Many families do not choose Punahou (mostly because of financial reasons), but if money was not an issue - their kids would be there.
Families in Hawaii may choose to send their kids to another school (parents send their kids to their alma mater, closer to home, etc.), but that’s not to say that those families don’t think highly of Punahou.
What disturbs me about the negative comments about Punahou is precisely the opposite of Wes’ remarks (”I know for a fact that Punahou is not the No. 1 choice of every family in Hawai‘i, and that is the misleading notion that I wonder about being perpetuated on the Mainland and even among some uninformed residents here”). You’re trying to perpetuate a negative view of Punahou.
I get the feeling that if SI chose another school (any other school) from Hawaii, everyone would be raving and supporting the decision….BUT mention Punahou and a big debate occurs.
Wes, I have two questions to ask you:
1. If you were SI staff, what Hawaii H.S. would you have chosen?
2. If Iolani was chosen #1 would your blog be written the same way?
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
1. If I were on the SI staff, I would have chosen Punahou. I have supported the No. 1 ranking from the very beginning, and never disputed it. Please go back and read. You and others seem to skip over this part and focus solely on the “negative,” which really is not a negative at all, just a single observation and point of clarification.
2. Honestly, I never thought of ‘Iolani possibly being chosen No. 1 and so I cannot say what I would have written. But I would think that even more so, the SI writer would have been encouraged to take a peek at Punahou and Kamehameha and get an idea of what their programs offer as well.
This whole thing reminds me of September 2000, when I covered De La Salle’s football season opener against Buchanan (Clovis, Calif.). De La Salle won, but the 26-20 score was the closest in their 100-game-plus win streak to that point and they looked unchracteristically vulnerable throughout the game.
I wrote a column pointing that out a few days later and proceeded to be bombarded with e-mails the next morning, asking why was I “bashing” De La Salle and basically saying, “How DARE you even suggest that De La Salle is not perfect and unbeatable?!?”
Folks, relax, I’m not saying Punahou is junk, and I’m not trying to “perpetuate a negative view.” On the contrary, I acknowledge that it is one of the finest high schools in the nation and is outstanding in almost every facet. I know most families would jump at the opportunity for their kids to attend and if I had kids I probably would have them apply there as well (though it wouldn’t be my No. 1 choice).
I just made one observation about the SI article, also with knowledge about the writer’s first day on campus and his comments to administrators, and I suggested that his perspective might have been a bit broader if he had also visited a couple other schools here as well.
That’s basically it. I didn’t mean to start World War III.
Mahalo for reading.
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Wes, your note (#71) was well written. As far as I am concerned, it brings closure to this matter. Thanks.
June 2nd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Wes,
Thanks for your response. I believe that you, as a dedicated journalist, have stirred up responses from your readers AND this is a good thing. Your blog resulted in 70-plus responses. Although we may not agree on all points, at least we have an outlet by which we are able to express our opinions!
Have a good day.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
punahou & its supporters…congratulations on the national recognition…all hawaii should be proud that punahou got the #1 ranking/coverage since it’s so rare that SI puts out anything on hawaii or its local athletes…those against punahou, i can see why you’re not “thrilled” every time punahou gets praised…what’s so great about winning if you “seemingly” have everything for you to win?…if you have the best facilities, coaches, and players, there’s something wrong with you if you don’t win…personally, i don’t think punahou has “everything” going for them so i don’t have a problem with the SI ranking/recognition…peace out…
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
To “Relax,”
We seem to have finally reached peace here, so I decided not to publish your post in fear of starting the whole thing over again.
But I hear you, and know that many would agree.
Maybe you can bring it up another time if and when the subject comes up again.
Mahalo for reading.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:54 am
I’m still waiting for you to list all the schools with Water Polo programs…
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Why should anyone list the amount of water polos titles. And if you take away water polo, Punahou still wins a high amount of state titles which makes your point moot.
If you want to research the amount of water polo teams, I hope you are diligent, intelligent, and motivated enough to do it for yourself.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Spoken like only a Punahou parent could…………
try seeing the real world……
June 4th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Brenda Shat wrote:
> I’m still waiting for you to list all the schools with Water Polo programs
YOU should try putting together a list of high schools that have varsity football teams. While you’re at it, do it for baseball, wrestling, swimming & diving, soccer, golf and other varisty sports. You’ll be surprised how many schools don’t have a team is one or more of these sports.
Since you seem to be unfamiliar with high school sports in Hawaii, you can get a list of high schools at the HHSAA’s web site.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:20 am
If you simply google “water polo hawaii high schools” it’ll take you to sportshigh.com and from there you can view all the different water polo programs - That’s how I found them! No need to wait for somebody else to list it, Brenda Shad, it’s right there at your fingertips!
June 5th, 2008 at 5:03 am
Hot dang this is a fun blog … so much to pick from …
SI’s approach to selecting a #1 High School athletic program is based on the institution’s relative dominance (statistically) WITHIN IT’S OWN STATE. That is all. That is how Long Beach Poly (California) was selected in 2007. Read that article.
So to Brenda, any argument about Punahou’s (or any other Hawaii high school, for that matter) inability to compete with Mainland programs is totally irrelevant to this blog. Your input deviates from the SI selection process.
But, if you want to mix it up and are willing to accept a pretty fair assessment of which sports and specifically, which Hawaii high school programs, WOULD provide competitive competition with Mainland high school programs, here we go. This list rounds off across the past 15 years of high school athletics … so a sport or team must demonstrate consistency and place athletes in D1 college programs:
Boy’s Water Polo
———————
PROGRAMS: Punahou, Iolani
RATIONALE: based on D1 athletes
Boy’s Volleyball
——————–
PROGRAMS: Punahou, Iolani, Kamehameha
RATIONALE: based on D1 athletes, competion vs Mainland schools
Girl’s Volleyball
——————–
PROGRAMS: Kamehameha, Punahou, Iolani
RATIONALE: based on D1 athletes; competion vs Mainland schools
Football
———–
PROGRAMS: St. Louis, Kahuku
RATIONALE: based on D1 athletes; competion vs Mainland schools
Baseball
———–
PROGRAMS: Punahou, Iolani, Pearl City, MidPac
RATIONALE: based on D1 athletes; competion vs Mainland schools
Of course, many other Hawaii high schools produce athletes who compete in D1 programs as well, but they are not mentioned here because of a lack of consistency as an “elite” in a particular sport.
MY GOLD NUGGET: If I have to pick 3 sports where Hawaii athletes have absolutely measured up to ANYTHING that Mainland high school competion can offer: Baseball, Boy’s Volleyball, Boy’s Water Polo
maholos keikis …
June 5th, 2008 at 5:18 am
Thank you for the reference.
I found that most schools don’t have water polo.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Brenda Shad wrote:
> I’m still waiting for you to list all the schools with Water Polo programs…
So far you have added no value to the discussion taking place on this blog. If you want to be taken seriously, do the research yourself and report your findings here.
Just go to the HHSAA’s web site, look up each school’s athletic programs (water polo, soccer, tennis, volleyball, etc.), record the data, analyze the data, and report your findings here.
Why should anyone else do the research for you? If you are trying to make a point, the only way you can make it and have any credibility is if you back up your position with research.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Wes,
Should have left well enough alone. Punahou got its just due from SI. You know that on Oahu ..you either love Punahou or hate them. Based on 79+ responses the love hate relationship with Punahou continues. Have a nice weekend.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Congrats to Punahou. No hating, was just stating that Punahou participates in so many more sports than other schools.
Football, baseball, volleyball, soccer and basketball are all even playing fields as almost every high school has a team.
June 7th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Brenda Shad wrote:
> Football, baseball, volleyball, soccer and basketball are all even
> playing fields as almost every high school has a team.
Again, you are making comments without doing research. What is your problem? If you want to be taken seriously, do your research. You’re adding no value to the conversation.
Per the HHSAA’s web site:
41% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a football team
49% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a boy’s volleyball team
37% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a boy’s soccer team
25% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a boy’s basketball team
49% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a girl’s volleyball team
36% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a girl’s soccer team
31% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a girl’s basketball team
As you can see, your assertion that “almost every high school” has a team in these sports is completely false. You disrespect the readers of this blog by posting misinformation here.
I see that I forgot to count the number of high schools that do not have a baseball team. I may check on that later, but based on the sports that I did research (and which you didn’t) it is obvious that your assertion is false.
June 7th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Brenda Shad wrote:
> Football, baseball, volleyball, soccer and basketball are all even
> playing fields as almost every high school has a team.
Per the HHSAA’s web site:
33% of Hawaii’s high schools do not have a baseball team
Your statement that “almost every high school” has a team in baseball is completely false.
June 7th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I think Brenda makes u her own stuff and doesn’t use scientific evidence to support her argument.
June 7th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Pukahead, good assessment about which Hawaii high school programs would provide competitive competition with mainland high school programs. Thanks for posting it.
June 7th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
“Harvard of the Pacific.” I believe that when one refers to an institution as being the “Harvard” of something, one is opining that that institution has a certain cache. Harvard is not the best in everything. But the name has intrinsic value. In that vein, it is not uncommon to similarly use the phase “the Mercedes” of kitchen appliances, etc. Mercedes connotes excellence, just like Harvard. In that vein, Punahou is the only school in Hawaii that has that type of cache both in Hawaii and on the Mainland. I am sure Yale graduates and BMW owners dislike this reality. Apparently, Iolani graduates that may write sport columns have similar insecurities. Avis is a good rental car company; but it is not Hertz.
June 7th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
I know I am replying late in the game but does anyone ever remember the person (or team) who comes in second in any sport? This never happens, not even in Hawaii high school sports. If you want recognition for being the 2nd best, then go play AYSO. That is the problem with today’s world. We want to always be politically correct, that we feel the need to make other, less worthy subjects feel deserving of something, anything. What do we teach by having this attitude? The SI article was about the BEST school with respect to athletics, not academics, not admission ratios, blah, blah, blah. It also mentioned how athletics is not the core of the school but only part of something that is great. Wes, why don’t you write your next articles to highlight the 2nd and 3rd and 4th place finishers in every sport? Don’t forget to mention that it is because of those finishers that we have our 1st place finisher. C’mon. I know that’s not going to happen here in your articles, so why in the heck should a big sports magazine like SI mention the close 2nds or 3rds. The BEST is the BEST,no ifs, buts or ands. By the way, you are not the best.
June 8th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Punahou has earned 16 (out of a possible 32)State Championship titles in this school year alone. If you can think of any other schools who have accomplished that much, you come let me know.
June 8th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Not sure if you got my other message. After reading through your analogy about Howard Dicus. I know this much, he is definitely better than you in reporting! Instead of being a sour sport, show some dignity and give praise where it is deserved. Punahou is the best. If you want Kamehameha recognized for something, then I would suggest you do a write-up on their intermediate level athletics. They tend to win a lot of those being that they let their freshmen play at the intermediate level! You want the truth, there it is!
June 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Public school, manadabomb,
I mentioned my point many times above, so I won’t get into it again, even though you and others still don’t seem to get it.
As for “insecurities,” if anything I think it is other people who are showing it by freaking out at the mere suggestion that a particular school should not be called the “Harvard of the Pacific.”
I congratulated Punahou many times, congratulated Howard Dicus, but you just ignore that and focus on perceived “insecurity” and jealousy. Whatever.
I guarantee on a stack of Bibles that I am not jealous of Howard Dicus, no matter what you believe.
Mahalo for reading.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Brenda Shad wrote:
> This is a joke. How many schools in Hawaii have water polo, paddling, and
> other “sports” like that for Punahou to compete against???? Punahou
> participates in sports that most other schools either don’t field a team
On the contrary, part of the excellence of Punahou’s athletics department is that it offers students so many different sports! There’s a sport for almost everyone. That is one of the reasons why 62.5% of Punahou’s high school students participate in after-school sports. That is a huge and very impressive participation rate.
Similarly, part of Punahou’s excellence as an academic institution is the wide variety of courses it offers. Punahou’s catalog of courses is like a college catalog. It’s amazing that to see a high school with such a diverse and abundant curriculum.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
The perception is that Brenda is very jealous of Punahou for some reason. Instead of providing scientific evidence to supplement and support her opinions, she rants and raves without offering any notion of logic or critical thought. I can understand why she may be subjective. I would guess that she did not, or someone she knows did not get accepted into Punahou.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:18 am
There’s that key word: perception.
The problem, as I have suggested all along, is that some people take perception as the gospel truth.
This is not always a good thing.
I’m not saying your perception is not true, but it also might not be true. It just might be that she thinks Punahou is a bit overrated, plain and simple.
We’ll let her answer for herself.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Wow, a lot of blogging since I last read. If anyone is into stats, I wonder what the average GPA and SAT scores of the 61% of Punahou athletes are in comparison to Kamehameha, MidPac, Iolani, St. Louis, HPA, Christian Academy, HBA, etc. That would be an interesting statistic. Also, how many of those that participated in sports went on to college?
June 10th, 2008 at 11:02 am
I guess I didn’t get your point. I thought you wanted other schools recognized for Punahou’s achivements. I also thought you believed Howard Dicus isn’t the best reporter. Eventhough both of them were voted to be the best by very legitimate institutions. Yes, you did congratulate both of them only after you discounted their work. The only conclusion I can come to when I read comments of this sort is that you have some unresolved issue with people who are the best. Is it because you are not the best? Just congratulate them and move on. By the way, this is just my perception.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Come on Wes,
Don’t lead the Witness (or in this case the writer)
You try to act as if you don’t throw stones. But, what you do is say something nice and then follow it with a slap in the face. Kind of like a spouse abuser (The flowers don’t make up for the slap in the face). Case and point your last post. You are a hater. Read your own post. Something nice follow by a slap in the face.
Try to do your job (covering high school sports) and stay somewhat objective and don’t openly just pull for Iolani!! All high schools in Honolulu need your support!
June 10th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Please explain to me how merely suggesting that a school may not be the “Harvard of Hawai‘i” as perceived is a “slap in the face” and acting “like a spouse abuser.”
This is what I mean by others showing insecurity. Am I not allowed to voice an opinion without being labeled “jealous” and a “hater?”
And people are telling ME to chill?
Sheezus …
June 10th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
This thread has descended into Bizarro world. I’ve been reading all along, biding my time, convincing myself not to write because it’s so hard to take any of this seriously. Now it’s degenerated into people calling each other names, much like many other blogs.
Silly.
Face it, folks: the tone of many emails can be misleading (my own included), and can obscure what the writer really means, which tells me everyone should be more careful before hitting the submit button.
I believe Wes when he writes that he agrees with the award, though I wish there were no such thing as this award. It’s silly, too.
I think Wes makes several valid points in defending himself. One is that it would have been nice if the SI guys had had a look at other campuses. Punahou’s success is connected to the success of all its competitors. The private school phenomenon on Oahu is unique, and worth a closer look; there’s nothing like it on the mainland. That’s a real story, and it’s not a simple one.
Why does it matter whether a school is number 1? There is no one number 1. Kids love Iolani because it’s a great place for them, just like those kids who love Punahou because it’s a good fit for them. Same for Mid-Pac, same for Hawaii Baptist, same for Damien, same for Kamehameha.
Why any of us on this thread have chips on our shoulders is beyond me, especially those of us affiliated with any of the private schools. There’s an embarrassment of riches re: private schools in Honolulu, and we should be grateful for our access to any of them.
June 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Wes,
Why are acting as if you don’t get it. I know that you’re a very bright guy. Heck you recieved a Iolani degree!
But, if I must– like someone posted eariler when someone gets an award everyone else should just clap or cheer. But what it looks like you’re doing or saying is “Hey what about me I did good too!
Maybe you should have wrote and article explaining why you think Punahou received this award. Not, Punahou is good but so is other schools in Hawaii. Like I said, yes you gave Punahou credit but it was a little back handed.
If you would have wrote and article like that I don’t think that you wouldn’t have received 100 post. But, like I said you’re a bright guy and you knew the storm you were starting.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Austin Murphy is a very good reporter and writer whose articles I have read for many years. I have said from the very beginning that he did a good job on the Punahou st